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 Clans and Non-Clan discussion

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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Sat 3 Aug - 1:56

Oro's clan was planned to be for Kumo, on the previous site we only had Npc from it since the whole clan was still on paper.

Juugo's clan is in a more definite paper form to be added to Iwa since the current Tsuchikage is from that clan and we have had a good deal of interaction with him and his clan in the past

The bow clan sounds interesting
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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Sat 3 Aug - 2:59

yep Juugo's Clan is the Torimenshi Clan on this site or at least referred to as such on here. And the Tsuchikage that is currently holding the position as far as the lore of this site is of that Clan.

Oro's Clan, Basically, their blood does not repulse any other form of blood, they were the ultimate bloodline-hunting clan so to speak, you could even connect them to Zetsu a bit. They have immunity to every poison, drug, genetic implant etc. near instantly after coming into contact with it. Never get sick but they do age though visibly much slower than others yet the aging effects on their bodies are the same as anyone else's.
They can thus inject themselves with any desired bloodline without the fatal risk of death that others have to undertake.
They can also grow teeth to bite and either inject something or suck blood.
sucking blood they regain HP, and temporarily (2 or so turns, possibly just 1) possess that person's merits (if perquisites available)...thus their chakra natures and so on. But this is rarely really made use of because of the short amount of time the effects last and the user doesn't get the knowledge on using the merit given abilities, he just has them, just the merits not the jutsu etc.

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the bubble guy in all honesty is a cool character, but not a clan >__>
just...character. Anyone can be a chill pipesmoking dude.

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Flesh release sounds interesting, though I wouldn't give it those elemental releases as prequisites if it were to happen, and possibly not even make it a Kekei Tota but a Kekei Genkai....for why would this be a Tota or an elemental release for that matter? It sound more akin to Kimimaro's powers and thus the Kaguya Clan, and that wasn't a release....Corpse Bone Pathways was the name of the Kekei Genkai...nothing to do with elements as far as I can see at least.

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on the magnet thing to Mukade, we don't see people with suiton creating water, in fact it has been stated many times that they needed water to be present in order to use suiton techniques , that's why those suiton users that were able to 'spawn' water were seen as extraordinary. Sand users likewise are not really known for creating sand out of thin air.

I'll say it once more, when there is no set in stone proof of either one or the other, the winner is game balance. Read what I am saying, I didn't claim in Naruto it worked like that, I am saying here it does.

Next, what is it you dislike about the workings of Kekei Tota and why? I am curious.
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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Sat 3 Aug - 4:24

Chikamatsu no Mukade wrote:
The third idea actually came from a friend of mine. a clan who developed a secret art of taking a string-less bow, then creating a string of chakra that can be easily controlled to manipulate the force of the arrow, and then probably also be able to create and launch arrows made of chakra. a good long range specialist clan.
an interesting added feature to them could be a doujutsu that allows telescopic vision.

That sounds like my character concept of a Hyuuga archer, except better since they have string-less bow and chakra arrows.
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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Sat 3 Aug - 6:38

yes but then again even here, one could create himself an ability like the string-less bow with chakra arrows without making it a clan. Well eventually it would then become a clan.
Character develops a special secret way to manipulate chakra in such way to create this form of attacks, passes the secrets onto his offspring and clan-members so to say and voila, you got yourself a clan

making it into a clan would be limiting players from achieving this on their own elsewhyr.

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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Mon 5 Aug - 1:56

Admin wrote:
yep Juugo's Clan is the Torimenshi Clan on this site or at least referred to as such on here. And the Tsuchikage that is currently holding the position as far as the lore of this site is of that Clan.

Interesting! I assume players would be able to create characters from this clan?



Admin wrote:
Oro's Clan, Basically, their blood does not repulse any other form of blood, they were the ultimate bloodline-hunting clan so to speak, you could even connect them to Zetsu a bit. They have immunity to every poison, drug, genetic implant etc. near instantly after coming into contact with it. Never get sick but they do age though visibly much slower than others yet the aging effects on their bodies are the same as anyone else's.
They can thus inject themselves with any desired bloodline without the fatal risk of death that others have to undertake.
They can also grow teeth to bite and either inject something or suck blood.
sucking blood they regain HP, and temporarily (2 or so turns, possibly just 1) possess that person's merits (if perquisites available)...thus their chakra natures and so on. But this is rarely really made use of because of the short amount of time the effects last and the user doesn't get the knowledge on using the merit given abilities, he just has them, just the merits not the jutsu etc.

Kiiiiinda makes sense I guess, and it sounds pretty cool... but if Orochimaru was from this clan, then why wasn't he supped up on kekkei genkai? or at least the several kekkei genkai he was after to use the people as hosts, such as the crystal chick, Kimimaru, and of cause sasuke. If he could so easily and seamlessly take gekkei genkai with a genetic sample, then why didn't he just do that to sasuke? it would have saved time, and probably stopped sasuke from wanting to kill him. Rather then design a complex jutsu that could only be used every 3 years.



Admin wrote:
the bubble guy in all honesty is a cool character, but not a clan >__>
just...character. Anyone can be a chill pipesmoking dude.

Fair enough, But when I was making the original suggestion I was only really talking about the bubble abilities. Since Utakata did learn them from a specific person. Just making suggestions for if you needed more clans.


Admin wrote:
on the magnet thing to Mukade, we don't see people with suiton creating water, in fact it has been stated many times that they needed water to be present in order to use suiton techniques , that's why those suiton users that were able to 'spawn' water were seen as extraordinary. Sand users likewise are not really known for creating sand out of thin air.



I don't recall it ever being said that they require a water sauce to create water techniques, but they are shown constantly creating water out of nothing. shinobi in the army made walls of water in the desert to deflect the massive fire attack from Madara. Kisami created what looked like a lake in the desert Tobirama when fighting the 4th created a whirlpool of water out of thin air. and either way that's the POINT of elemental jutsu. Chakra transformation is meant so that the shinobi can control and element and transform their chakra into that element. that's WHY its called chakra nature transformation. That being said if a shinobi already has the element available then clearly that's easier, since they can skip the transformation part and get straight to the control.

Also, just WATCH the scene where Sasori first uses the kazakage puppet. Chyro explains that he specifically uses magnetism to manipulate the iron, and the reason its used like sand (as opposed to the other magnet release user we've seen) is because it was made to resemble the fighting style of one of the last hosts of the shikaku. Its NOT AT ALL strange to think the same kekkei genkai could have developed in separate locations. or maybe a few generations back one or two of them left the village and started a second clan, or maybe its only a couple of individuals. I don't care what you do. BUT REALISE that the kazekage CLEARLY used magnet release. and the two users only used it differently because they JUST DID. Utakata uses water style to make bubbles, and its vastly different from any other water user, and we see lava release being used to make rubber. Different users use the same chakra natures differently.



Admin wrote:
I'll say it once more, when there is no set in stone proof of either one or the other, the winner is game balance. Read what I am saying, I didn't claim in Naruto it worked like that, I am saying here it does.

That's fair enough... I don't really see why that's balancing. but if you say so fair enough. I'm told you have a lot of experience in game design. if you don't agree with what I'm saying then we'll simply have to agree to disagree... I guess.



Admin wrote:
Next, what is it you dislike about the workings of Kekei Tota and why? I am curious.

I'm not going to complain about it too much since I think the system works well for this game. but I'm conflicted because Its CLEARLY not how it works in the anime. I already said that if you watch "Battleground!" episode 268 of the Naruto Shippūden. Link Here Just skip to about 16:00 and shikamaru explains it. Kekkei tota are exactly the same as Kekkei genaki, but take 3 natures instead of 2, and like kekkei genkai there is a slight amount of randomness to it. Anyone who develops an advanced chakra nature only does so because they where born with multiple simultaneous chakra natures that combined into one because they where simply there. No matter who you are or where you're from, if you're born with earth chakra AND fire chakra, there is a CHANCE that you may develop Lava chakra. The tsuchikage's line probably had both Earth and Fire, Meaning that almost all of its members had Lava Release, However he had the mutation to ALSO be born with Wind Release, which meant that instead of lava release, he was born with the added dust release, just as Mu did. Mu trained him in how to control this chakra nature because clearly, its very complex and dangerous, if he wasn't trained then he'd simply have to understand it through trial and error. This is the same for ALL chakra natures, though its possible this would have been more complex, since it took more chakra natures to control then all the others.
The only possible exception to this rule is the Mizukage who while having 3 natures, instead of getting a kekkei tota, was born with two different kekkei genkai, this is likely because of being the descendant of two lines that had either advanced nature. though even if its not. there is still an amount of randomness in how this all happens.

A kekkei tota is (as far as I can tell) simply a classification for a kekkei genkai that is so rare and powerful that its on a class of its own.

But as I said, while this is a little annoying, I'm willing to accept this without argument, simply because I think its an okay system.



... It does raise the question though... if you can simply add a 3rd chakra nature to the other two by training (as you believe) then why can't you just do that with any other combination? why can't a person, with enough training, simply LEARN to combine chakra to create ice release, if what you think is true?


Admin wrote:
Flesh release sounds interesting, though I wouldn't give it those elemental releases as prequisites if it were to happen, and possibly not even make it a Kekei Tota but a Kekei Genkai....for why would this be a Tota or an elemental release for that matter? It sound more akin to Kimimaro's powers and thus the Kaguya Clan, and that wasn't a release....Corpse Bone Pathways was the name of the Kekei Genkai...nothing to do with elements as far as I can see at least.

I've put a fair amount of thought into it, and I really think it would be better as an advanced elemental nature. However I'd be happy to discuss this with you further, and figure out in greater detail on its functionality so that we're both pleased. I'd be happy for this thing to be unique, and maybe become a clan later. or simply be like Hashirama's wood style. It would probably be a highly coveted set of genes like Wood style.
Either way can we please perhaps start another thread to discuss this in closer detail? It will be easier to keep track of that way and won't interfere with the other conversations here.





Because I'm not sure how I'm coming across (and I'm constantly paranoid about this) I'll just add that I'm not mad about any of this, and I'm not looking for a fight, or even an argument, just a discussion, if even that. So yeah... please don't take any of that wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Tue 6 Aug - 2:35

On the Torimenshi Clan....yes, naturally players will be able to make a character from this clan.

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Why, because read....1 or 2 turns...translates into 6 seconds....whooptidoo, Oro bites Sasuke and has 6 seconds of Sharingan. He can copy this process until Sasuke is drained of blood for 12 seconds of Sharingan...no wait he wouldn't even get the sharingan...he's just get the Uchiha blood...he'd have to develop sharingan...good luck doing that in 12 seconds. >___> . But it's a good question indeed. But hope this explains the missing ends right here. And like it says, it doesn't give one the skills, jutsu and so on...just the bloodline limit for a short few seconds. Now if you by then somehow already managed to know what to do with them...you could. But it is mostly used for regeneration.
Also please realize, well you being an Orochimaru fan probably already realize this, is that we have yet to see Orochimaru go all out full strength in battle. Every single fight aside from the one he had with the third he had some form of a handicap or another. And in the fight against the third he was playing around until it was too late and he got his arms. Ever since and up until when he got his soul-arms back from the shinigami is he back at full power. So yeah.

As for genetic samples....I believe if Kabuto had both Kimmimaro's Kekei Genkai as well as Karin's Kekei Genkai that Orochimaru could have easily had the same just never really showed it much or had no need for it or a different use for it...Orochimaru himself probably likewise was injected with Juugo's genetics.
Now as for Sasuke, Orochimaru didn't just want the Uchiha Kekei Genkai Blood...he wanted the Sharingan, and the sharingan is something born within an Uchiha, not all Uchiha get it, it develops under various circumstances. And well, I don't know what the explanation on the anime for this is but on here where Crystal Style is a Kekei Tota the explanation becomes quite easy...stealing her genetic sample would only give him her Kekei Genkai....Ice Style...he wouldn't be selected by blood to likewise inherit her Kekei Tota....those are un-stealable. Unless offcourse you just inhibit their body which has it and develop it inside yourself like that. Same with the Sharingan. Hence why he took that approach with them.
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Hmmmm, well Kiri is kinda lacking on Clans but I imagine this would be more of a Hiden Clan rather than a Kekei Genkai, correct?
And still I'd say anyone can do this and making bubbles shouldn't be too big a secret. soap and water. Razz

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On the magnet release subject, let's agree to agree. Magnet release it is, but we'll make it a Tota still deriving from the sand control. Because if the user of that has both the power to magnetise, manipulate and control the level of magnetism of metals around him, he is retardedly powerful, even for this games standards. And well, just means it's Suna's property so to speak.
But then the question arises how Toroi got it in the first place, unless offcourse he had the three required natures for the Tota himself just not the genetic requirements to connect them, and smart people in Kumo who stole these genetics used them on him specifically because they knew of the effects. We could do that.

I have watched the video, trust me, I did my research on this.
The thing is, where it does say that the Kekei Tota tops the Kekei Genkai, and where it does say that the Tota is very rare and a combination of three chakra natures instead of two.
It doesn't say or imply anywhere that it is a mutation that can happen to anyone holding these chakra natures.
I mean honestly, Asuma had wind and fire release....why didn't he have Shakuton?
Kakashi has Water, Fire,Earth,Wind and Lightning...uhm...why doesn't he have woodstyle? Or particle release?
Why does Yamato have woodstyle? Ohw yeah, because he had the genes of the first who developed the genetic ability, these can as shown here obviously appear on their own, it happens, and there is a system for that too on this site, as to how they appear, and they usually do from non-clan characters or mix-clan stuff. But the ability to mix these elements is likewise genetic. Not all people that hold the two chakra natures are able to form the kekei genkai elements.

Considering the fact that we have seen people stealing other people's bloodline abilities before through bloodline hunting and genetic manipulation, sealing and/or surgery in order to get their genetic abilities and considering we only see 1 person in Kiri using lava style, one person in Kumo using lava style...while a whole large bunch of people in Iwa , even unnamed characters deploy lava style en mass....

Lava style users

Notice the Iwagakure flak jacket on all of them that you can see...doesn't this kinda point more towards the possibility that these abilities do follow a strickt genetic line and are extremely rare to just appear. And more towards the possibility of people having stolen them rather than them having developed in so many different places. Especialy when those two places are the only 2 of the 5 great hidden villages that have been shown to hunt and steal secrets and kekei genkai from rivaling villages. Both Kiri and Kumo are known for doing this kind of stuff. And long and behold they happen to be the ones who each have ONE lava style user. ....tum tum tum...ya know?
Now if it was Suna that had a lava style user i'd be like....meeeeeh....perhaps maybe and such.

Thus for the anime I believe these abilities to be strictly bound to a clan or the people who stole it from them. And thus I don't believe an ability such as a Kekei Tota which combines three natures could be born within someone who didn't even posses the ability to combine two in the first place.

Kekkei tōta (血継淘汰; Literally meaning "a selection of blood inheritance")
Inheritance seems to suggest it is inherited and thus bound to a Kekei Genkai.
From this I have taken that it must be a rare phenomenon within an elemental Kekei Genkai Clan that one is born with 3 chakra natures instead of two and would thus develop a Kekei Tota. Which would be a selection of blood inheritance.

There doesn't seem to be any indication that they are just randomly born within someone at random. Just that they are very rare. And there isn't an implication that Kekei Genkai are also born within people at random. It all seems to be tied to a 'bloodline' you know?
Hence why I don't see why you believe it works diffrently with the Tota or the Kekei Genkai on here, aside from maybe that originally Magnet release and Crystal Release weren't Tota and now we made them so...but hey. Aside from that I believe I kept it pretty close to it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the flesh release...how is it an element????
that is my biggest question.
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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Tue 6 Aug - 9:04

Chikamatsu no Mukade wrote:
... It does raise the question though... if you can simply add a 3rd chakra nature to the other two by training (as you believe) then why can't you just do that with any other combination? why can't a person, with enough training, simply LEARN to combine chakra to create ice release, if what you think is true?

Personally, I think you need to be born with two chakra natures(or above) to be able to combine them into an advanced release and it's pretty well-established since the beginning of the canon Narutoverse that pretty much every ordinary human are born with one and can only trained into others. "Trained" nature could never have the same proficiency as your nature chakra because well, they are not inborn to you so you ain't going to combine them into an advanced release. Only those within a kekkei genkai are born with two chakra natures and more and so they can eventually combine them. Otherwise, you will see every generic jounin throwing advanced releases out there since they tend to have 2-3 releases and that's just crazy.

I think in one episode Shikamaru explained a little about the proficiency thing, he and a few shinobis formed an earth wall but none of them have a good handle on earth elemental. He then explained that anyone can do any type of elemental jutsus but it is going to suck unless it is trained or you are born with said element. He explained a little bit further on the nature element, something along the line that you can already use said element at the highest level possible since day 1 since you are born with it but for "trained" nature, you will need to "level them up". And that wall crumbled easily afterward.

Of course, to be born with multiple chakra natures is so much easier in this game so it needs a different take.

---------------------------------------------------------

"淘汰" means elimination so I assume only a selective few of one kekkei genkai can achieve kekkei tota, they are like "the one" after elimination of the more ordinary crowd.
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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Fri 9 Aug - 22:10

Tenshu Ryochoku wrote:
Personally, I think you need to be born with two chakra natures(or above) to be able to combine them into an advanced release and it's pretty well-established since the beginning of the canon Narutoverse that pretty much every ordinary human are born with one and can only trained into others. "Trained" nature could never have the same proficiency as your nature chakra because well, they are not inborn to you so you ain't going to combine them into an advanced release. Only those within a kekkei genkai are born with two chakra natures and more and so they can eventually combine them. Otherwise, you will see every generic jounin throwing advanced releases out there since they tend to have 2-3 releases and that's just crazy.
I couldn't agree with you more!


Tenshu Ryochoku wrote:
Of course, to be born with multiple chakra natures is so much easier in this game so it needs a different take.
Yeah... I guess you're right...


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Admin wrote:
On the Torimenshi Clan....yes, naturally players will be able to make a character from this clan.
Awesome! I don't think I'd likely make a character from that clan, but its still awesome to know they're an option.


Admin wrote:
Now as for Sasuke, Orochimaru didn't just want the Uchiha Kekei Genkai Blood...he wanted the Sharingan, and the sharingan is something born within an Uchiha, not all Uchiha get it, it develops under various circumstances. And well, I don't know what the explanation on the anime for this is but on here where Crystal Style is a Kekei Tota the explanation becomes quite easy...stealing her genetic sample would only give him her Kekei Genkai....Ice Style...he wouldn't be selected by blood to likewise inherit her Kekei Tota....those are un-stealable. Unless offcourse you just inhibit their body which has it and develop it inside yourself like that. Same with the Sharingan. Hence why he took that approach with them.
The sharingna is activated by the brain creating special chakra in a Uchiha when the experience extreme negative emotions. and all most ALL people in general not just uchiha would go through this prerequisite at some point. All Orochi would have needed to do is give him self the DNA, then watch a really tear jerking Soup opera. XD

Just kidding on that last part. But it wouldn't have been hard at all. It would have been as though he was born to the uchiha themselves. Very few uchiha don't unlock the shringan, in fact the only one I know of thats never been shown to have a sharingan is Sasuke's Mother. and that might simply be because we've never seen her in a fight.


... we've already established what I think about Kekkei tota, so no comment.



Admin wrote:
Hmmmm, well Kiri is kinda lacking on Clans but I imagine this would be more of a Hiden Clan rather than a Kekei Genkai, correct?
And still I'd say anyone can do this and making bubbles shouldn't be too big a secret. soap and water.
I assume that's a joke right? I GUESS any one could learn it. but to me it just seems PERFECT for a hiden technique. Since its not JUST soap and bubbles, its a complex use of chakra that not only controls the bubbles, makes them strong (strong enough to carry people inside them) But remember all the different effects it can be used for? including different gasses being placed inside them simply by using his chakra while blowing them.

Its possible that these might be something everyone knows, and if you really think that its fine. but it seems very far fetched to me.




Admin wrote:
On the magnet release subject, let's agree to agree. Magnet release it is, but we'll make it a Tota still deriving from the sand control. Because if the user of that has both the power to magnetise, manipulate and control the level of magnetism of metals around him, he is retardedly powerful, even for this games standards. And well, just means it's Suna's property so to speak.
Despite the fact its explicitly reffered to as a kekkei genkai, not kekkei tota. but FINE! even though Sand doesn't seem to have anything to do with magnetism. the relation to the Two makes no sense.

But why do you think its so powerful?? that's no different from how Toroi uses it. The 3rd Kazekage only used it like that because he had the iron sand, which was a Tool he used with his magnetism, not his jutsu itself. and besides, he invented it by studying the fighting style of the shikaku hosts, which means it might be a hiden technique as well

And as far as cannon (and your version) goes, I see no reason why any kekkei tota is nessessarily connected to any specific kekkei genkai. I mean... What the hell does Crystals have to do with Ice? What do Particles have to do with Lava? What does Magnetism have to do with



Admin wrote:
The thing is, where it does say that the Kekei Tota tops the Kekei Genkai, and where it does say that the Tota is very rare and a combination of three chakra natures instead of two.
It doesn't say or imply anywhere that it is a mutation that can happen to anyone holding these chakra natures.
I mean honestly, Asuma had wind and fire release....why didn't he have Shakuton?
Kakashi has Water, Fire,Earth,Wind and Lightning...uhm...why doesn't he have woodstyle? Or particle release?
Why does Yamato have woodstyle?
Okay.... if you refer to what Tenshu Ryochoku said. and what Shikamaru said. you would realise that the reason Asuma does not have Shakuton is because he likely was not born with both those styles! Same with Kakashi! an

What you need for an advanced chakra nature is a perfect, balanced combination of two chakra natures, which is almost impossible (but not completely impossible) to achieve unless someone is born with them. Sasuke and Naruto could create Scortch Release because they where both able to perfectly combine their Fire and Wind chakra respectively, remember? and Yamato could use wood style because inside Hoshirama's DNA is the capablility to seemlessly combine Earth and Water. If the genetics where all that allowed a direct transition to the advanced nature, then why bother needing the two to be combined at all?

Shikamaru: "However, there are those born with 2 chakra natures, who are able to fuse the two and create new chakra. These are known as Kekkei genkai shinobi"

The use of the term kekkei genkai seems strange here, for both of our definitions. What they inherit is the chakra natures as well as an ability to combine them that is probably identical amongst all advanced nature clans, which because their body possesses both naturally, can combine them perfectly. this is obvious

Shikamaru: "And topping the kekkei genkai is the kekkei tota, in which three chakra natures are fused."

This quote says it all. They are identical to a kekkei genkai release, but take three instead, leading to a complexity and level of power that places it onto a new classification of kekkei genkai.

(I'm sick of this topic anyway, so I'm moving on.)




Admin wrote:
these can as shown here obviously appear on their own, it happens, and there is a system for that too on this site, as to how they appear, and they usually do from non-clan characters or mix-clan stuff. But the ability to mix these elements is likewise genetic. Not all people that hold the two chakra natures are able to form the kekei genkai elements.
You've intrigued me here. I am somewhat confused, since this seems to be exactly what Ryochoku and I have been trying to explain. If this is really what you think then maybe everything before now has been a slight misunderstanding. Please explain this in greater detail, and we might be able to completely agree.




Admin wrote:
Considering the fact that we have seen people stealing other people's bloodline abilities before through bloodline hunting and genetic manipulation, sealing and/or surgery in order to get their genetic abilities and considering we only see 1 person in Kiri using lava style, one person in Kumo using lava style...while a whole large bunch of people in Iwa , even unnamed characters deploy lava style en mass....

Lava style users

Notice the Iwagakure flak jacket on all of them that you can see...doesn't this kinda point more towards the possibility that these abilities do follow a strickt genetic line and are extremely rare to just appear. And more towards the possibility of people having stolen them rather than them having developed in so many different places. Especialy when those two places are the only 2 of the 5 great hidden villages that have been shown to hunt and steal secrets and kekei genkai from rivaling villages. Both Kiri and Kumo are known for doing this kind of stuff. And long and behold they happen to be the ones who each have ONE lava style user. ....tum tum tum...ya know?
Now if it was Suna that had a lava style user i'd be like....meeeeeh....perhaps maybe and such.
Ehhhh... you know what. you've convinced me. good job. I don't know if its true. bit it is a distinct possibility some of them are stolen.


Admin wrote:
Thus for the anime I believe these abilities to be strictly bound to a clan or the people who stole it from them. And thus I don't believe an ability such as a Kekei Tota which combines three natures could be born within someone who didn't even posses the ability to combine two in the first place.
But what would happen if say... a person outside of the yuki clan developed the genes necessary to combine two natures and just happened to have wind and air? what would the develope?

also, we know that an advanced nature can be made without a "gene specifically to combine them" anyway, because Sasuke and Naruto did it with eachother. However some may use a gene, we can't be certain.



Admin wrote:
Kekkei tōta (血継淘汰; Literally meaning "a selection of blood inheritance")
Inheritance seems to suggest it is inherited and thus bound to a Kekei Genkai.
From this I have taken that it must be a rare phenomenon within an elemental Kekei Genkai Clan that one is born with 3 chakra natures instead of two and would thus develop a Kekei Tota. Which would be a selection of blood inheritance.

There doesn't seem to be any indication that they are just randomly born within someone at random. Just that they are very rare. And there isn't an implication that Kekei Genkai are also born within people at random. It all seems to be tied to a 'bloodline' you know?
Hence why I don't see why you believe it works diffrently with the Tota or the Kekei Genkai on here, aside from maybe that originally Magnet release and Crystal Release weren't Tota and now we made them so...but hey. Aside from that I believe I kept it pretty close to it.
I .... I don't think your listening to me.

I never said anyone is born with them COMPLETELY at random. and what randomness there is is still incredibly small. its basic genetic mutation. if the ability to combine chakra natures is a mutation, then surely you're only going to be able to combine whatever natures you're naturally born with, and there is only a finite selection. so given enough time its inevitable that the same thing will develop at similar locations.

I have to ask you then. How does an advanced nature kekkei genkai start? You began to touch on this before, but I think answering this could clear things up. because I seriously am begining to consider that the main reason we're at disagreement is because one of us are not understanding the other's position properly.



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Chikamatsu no Mukade

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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Sun 11 Aug - 19:09

Admin wrote:
As for the flesh release...how is it an element????
that is my biggest question.
if we look at the traditional understanding of elements you have some interesting (but incredibly scientifically inaccurate) stuff. I don't know much about Eastern interpretations, but in most western ones. All matter in the universe is made up of some amount of combination between 4 basic elements, those elements traditionally are Fire, Water, Air, and Earth. though in Naruto we have the added 5th wheel of Lightning, which is interesting enough.

The idea of this is that everything in existence is a combination of these. some simpler then others. Obviously things like lava are considered a combination of Earth and fire. Mub of earth and water. More complex matter, such as a human (and all organic animals) also come from this, but need more careful balancing. Traditionally a human is made up of 3. The earth gives them form and mass, water gives them blood, and changes the earth to flesh, and finally fire is what gives it all energy, life, and motion. it if the "fire of the soul".

The idea is that once you start combining elements, and calling the results elements, you could conceivably get anything so long as you had the right combination. some would probably be more complex then others.

My original concept for a kekkei genkai is essentially the combination of those three elements, to create a chakra style that can manipulate and create flesh.

If this approach is taken, I wouldn't mind making an "Hair of Senju" style character. who's a member of the dieing Senju clan, and possibly being related to Hashirama, or maybe even a direct descendant from him.


That being said. I've come up with a few different ways to approach it, which I would like to be able to discuss with you. some may include it not being an advanced chakra transformation, but in fact an advanced version of Kimimaru's kekkei genkai.

Perhaps it could have "evolved" into a new kekkei genkai. or is an artificial one made, based off of the Kaguya one. Kimimaru could control his bones by using his chakra to manipulate the calcium in them. perhaps something similar to this could be done, but instead it manipulates the production and division of cells. Including bone cells, but not to the same proficiency as the Kaguya.


Another idea  involves "blood style" This is a concept I've been working on that isn't actually a chakra release, but I can't figure out a better name. Essentually the shinobi uses water style to manipulate their blood as though its a chakra release (being able to make the blood multiply rapidly) This may require either Yang Release or chakra infused blood, like with the Uzumaki

Essentially, I was thinking this could be combined with the Torimenshi Clan. Perhaps an Uzumaki and Torimenshi hybrid? or Otogakure experiment? By using blood manipulation (or perhaps Yang Release) the person can create a variation of the normal Sage Transformation that is far more easily manipulated, Rather then being callus like it would be fleshy and blood filled. This might mean more manipulation, greater variety of abilities, and less chakra to maintain (if chakra is needed to maintain it at all). Draw backs could include it being slightly less sturdy to the norm, and taking more skill to create.


I'd also LOVE to make a character who either is, or could join, Otogakure. and possibly even become something of an apprentice to Kabuto some day. Like how Naruto was an apprentice to jiraiya. (though probably either senju or oto, very unlikely both, and if it where it'd only just come from role playing twists.)


Another concept I've been thinking about is the "blood cloak". It would be either a created item that is similar to the "executioner's blade". A dark red cloak that could heal itself of damage by touching and drawing in the blood of a killed enemy, and hardening it until it becomes like fabric. A blood user could also use this cloak as a medium.




Here's a basic outline of what I'm looking for in this kekkei genkai/genetic predisposition. This is merely the kind of things a user of this style MIGHT be capable of, not what my character would necessarily use.

D Rank stuff: Ability so change limbs and didgits into various tools and weapons. as well as grow simple body armour and the like. (much like jugo's clan)

C Rank stuff: Ability to create new biological mass, such as additional limbs and tentacles. You could probably posses rapid healing, where by chakra could be transferred into biomass to use as replacement tissue.

B Rank stuff: Around here complex abilities begin to emerge, things like the ability to augment now or aditional organs such as extra hearts, or venom glans. or spawn eyes all over the body (this would be particularly useful if the person also possessed a doujutsu kekkei genkai) You'd also likely be able to augment the flesh of others by physical contact (though only temporarily). You'd probably be able to use Body Absorption similar to Juugo

There would be jutsu's intended for flesh clones and flesh transformation technique. these would likely create near perfect clones, as they're comprised as flesh rather then some other element, though they'd take a lot of chakra and more time then average to make. And with a genetic sample of a target, a user would likely be able to transform into a perfect replication of them, similar to the Zetsu.

A Rank Stuff: At this level certain transformations may be able to be made semi permanent. like how kabuto had his snake form when effected by Orochimaru's cells, but returned to normal after Orochimaru's chakra was extracted from him.
Users may also be able to create actual creatures out of flesh to be controlled by them, likely these creatures would only have very short life spans (maybe 48 hours) and perhaps have a kind of low level hive mind functionality with their creator.

S Rank Stuff: Techniques of this level may include the ability to absorb the genes of another person and merge them with your own, This would give the person any kekkei genkai or chakra natures the other person had. However, they would also run a very high risk of gaining any weaknesses the victim may have had.
Picture Deep Forest Emergence, but with huge callused tentacles and monstrous mouths instead of trees and roots.




I'd already mentioned these pictures:
 

Here's some more:
 

Lovecraftian Superpower


For the blood cloak combined with these powers, picture these, but red instead of yellow:
 


Last edited by Chikamatsu no Mukade on Tue 13 Aug - 21:37; edited 6 times in total (Reason for editing : Adding another picture)
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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Sun 11 Aug - 21:31

While I still stand by my original opinion, that it's Naruto meets bad horror movie.

I goddamn like that blood cloak idea. So sinister... dum dum DUM! clown 

(ps. yes, clowns are sinister too.)

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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Sun 11 Aug - 22:32

Haha Thanks! Though why do you think its more "Bad horror movie" then Zabuza's sword?


Also, I've done some thinking, and if Flesh Release can't be accepted as an Advanced Chakra Nature. then I might simply go back to my Sheshamaru style character, but replace being from the Nagara clan, with being from the Torimenshi clan.

Though I would like to ask what are the limits of the Torimenshi clan's power? and how much customisation in techniques for them can there be? Also I'd like to know the rules behind their rages.

Though I guess most of this would be answered when their information is written up when the village opens.


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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Mon 12 Aug - 4:02

Personally, I think the admin makes more sense that not every kekkei genkai has to be elemental. Kaguya's bone isn't elemental so it's pretty fine for this flesh power to not be elemental. One thing I wonder is, why are you trying to make it elemental? I don't really see the difference of it being elemental and non-elemental except that for the elemental version to work, your character is forced to take that 3 elements.
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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Wed 14 Aug - 7:04

Ahhh dear Mukade, I see how you conduct your conversations. Anyone who doesn't agree with your godly opinion which seems to be based more on emotions and shortsighted conclusions rather than the fruit of actual research be it through reading or fruitful discussion , is simply ridiculed.

I must say a fine example of a bloated ego, pardon me for saying so.

I do believe I tried to oblige to your questions and requests on information as much as I could and tried to have a fruitful, respectful and open discussion with you. But you seem to have neglected this fact.
Because your opinion....notice me saying opinion...in your own mind is apparently always fact. So much in fact that you tend to overlook others near completely while you do this.

In fact you might be suffering severe autism...this coming from someone with autism.

So on your entire story of the flesh release thing, simply by how you started that post...
DENIED! Forever and always.

See I can be an asshole too.
And a Fuck you for insulting my intelligence buddy. I know what elements are according to science, but for fucks sake....we're talking about a GAME here...and RPG....if you're such a genius why can't you figure THAT part out right.
FYI if you combine water and wind in science ICE does not appear....whoopdiefuckingdoo...
Ohw ohw and if you perform handseals and focus your chakra correctly...no fireball comes out...what a shocker,huh?

TL; DR ....Denied.

If you expect me to read something and evaluate something for you to put in MY game that I have torn my ass over making and setting up and add it to it because YOU want me to. You could at least have the brain capacity to know that being respectful about it at the very least would have given you a higher chance and perhaps even a success at your mission (I dunno for sure, really didn't read.) . So basically by insulting my intelligence for unknown purposes in your first line there you were actually insulting your own.

I bid you a fine day kind Sir.
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Chikamatsu no Mukade

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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Thu 29 Aug - 22:00

I really don't know what happened here... I thought I was being respectful, or at the very least I don't understand how I insulted you.

I really am sorry though.

The couple weeks ago when I wrote that I was under a lot of stress. I'd spent almost a month with built up school work, 4 major works due (the first one due 3 days after I made that post) and I had been having a very hard life with my father. I have been using this as my "cool down" so to speak, to relax a little. Its possible I inadvertently let some of my anger/frustration out on you, and if I did I truly apologise, I never wanted to or planned to. (though looking back on my post I don't see anything that insulting...)

I don't know how much of my rather long message you read, but basically I did say that I agree with you. You HAD convinced me that you're ideas about the villages stealing from one another being the cause of seeing the same natures from different villages. I was simply asking HOW they start in your mind, and what stops the same combination from happening multiple times. This is to cement and clarify your theory, and if you can explain those two points, then not only will I accept it, but I'll take it on as MY OWN head cannon, that's the way it works. Its like a scientific theory.



Admin wrote:
I see how you conduct your conversations. Anyone who doesn't agree with your godly opinion which seems to be based more on emotions and short-sighted conclusions rather than the fruit of actual research be it through reading or fruitful discussion , is simply ridiculed.

I must say a fine example of a bloated ego, pardon me for saying so.
I really don't understand where you're coming from here. I'm sorry, there might be some truth in that observation, and I apologise if that's the case. But it is most certainly not intentional, and I'll do my best to avoid it when its brought to my attention.
Though in my defence. you've done nothing to make your own argument any superior.


Admin wrote:
In fact you might be suffering severe autism...this coming from someone with autism.
... Yah, I have some level of High Functioning Autism. -_- Seriously?


Admin wrote:
And a Fuck you for insulting my intelligence buddy. I know what elements are according to science, but for fucks sake....we're talking about a GAME here...and RPG....if you're such a genius why can't you figure THAT part out right.
FYI if you combine water and wind in science ICE does not appear....whoopdiefuckingdoo...
Ohw ohw and if you perform handseals and focus your chakra correctly...no fireball comes out...what a shocker,huh?
I have no idea how I may have insulted your intelligence. If I did though I AM sorry. and I have even less idea what you're trying to prove by saying all that.


Admin wrote:
If you expect me to read something and evaluate something for you to put in MY game that I have torn my ass over making and setting up and add it to it because YOU want me to. You could at least have the brain capacity to know that being respectful about it at the very least would have given you a higher chance and perhaps even a success at your mission (I dunno for sure, really didn't read.) . So basically by insulting my intelligence for unknown purposes in your first line there you were actually insulting your own.
Sad  ... WHAT? where is this coming from!? I'm utterly confused and terrified!






I'm sorry that you feel insulted, but whatever you think I tried to say to you (or whatever I accentually said to you and still don't realise) I never wanted or intended to insult or disrespect you. as far as I was aware we WERE only having a civil discussion, one that I acknowledge you may have been winning. (though that may have been through the virtue of simply BEING the admin.)

PLEASE don't hate me! Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Clans and Non-Clan discussion   Fri 6 Sep - 1:11

Aaahahahahahahahahahaha! Sorry boys but this sounds like a political talk about minorities! Mukade, you already have a character,right? When I played Skyrim I didn't call up the programmers and ask them to program me a super special personal race/class...it's a game and I roll with what I get and make the best of it or I don't. I don't think Admin meant gimme new personal clan ideas from your fantasy, I think he meant point out possible ones, like your idea with the bubbles which I like a lot btw....Utakata is indeed a hottie.

As for the Genetic questions, I think the same advanced chakra natures and bloodlines should not be everywhere or multiple places, unless a rarity. And I believe simple natural observation should explain as to why. Black people come from Africa, Asian people from Asia...they became Asian through their bodies adapting to their environment through evolution, be they in Africa they would have become black, not through only one generation but multiple but still. So I think Admin's hands are tied here on that matter.

And for which Clan is the best? Sarutobi, duuuuuur. We got Asuma Razz
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